More on the Move
By Jeff
first, thanks to all of you who provided your opinions. That's what makes this blog worth doing. Let me ask you this. Would you rather have the most expensive house in a poor neighborhood, or one of the average houses in a rich neighborhood? I dont know about you, but the answer is simple for me. Its the latter.
If all you care about is getting into the Tournament, no matter how weak the league, then join the SWAC. Its one and done time every year and then only if you mange to win three games in the tournament. If you care about playing and competing in big time college basketball, with league games folks want to see, just like football, then the Big West was not the place to go.
If your recruits want to be on television, want their games to be discussed on ESPN, and want to play in big time arenas before big-time crowds, its not the Big West.
Let me make sure you understand my position. I understand the move in football to the Mountain West. I understand putting women's volleyball and baseball into the Big West. And i appreciate there were probably no other options for basketball. But that doesn't mean i have to drink the Kool-Aid. Sometimes, winning isnt everything, and by the way, UH is 0-3 against the Big West over the past two years. I am optimistic about our program and its chances to become a top 100 basketball team. Its not happening in the Big West.
Hoops Talk
December 11th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
I totally agree with your assesment on going to the Big West for Basketball. I think everyone knows the moves were made at the expense of Men's Basketball. Even with the loses of Boise, Fresno, and NV, WAC Basketball is still much better than the Big West. Considering Men's B-Ball is the second biggest revenue generating sport, I don't see how this move really helps the team other than minimizing travel expenses. Since it's been so long since the Bows have had a really good team, I'm sure the higher-ups decided a step back at this point wasn't that big of a deal.
December 11th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
You know it is what it is, all that UH can do now is make the best of its preseason tourneys to schedule the best across the country and take the Gonzaga mentality by going on the road and playing good teams at their house. Yeah, exposure may not come with the home and home slate of BW games but a statement could still be made by not being afraid to take on the big boys at their home, and somehow I believe we may see a few of those games on ESPN.
December 11th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
What you guys fail to see is by staying in the WAC after 2012, what would the WAC power rankings be???
I say go with the weaker conference power rankings and load up on the non-conference schedule as the team gets stronger.
It's not like we had several options on where to go guys.
December 11th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
well, being that beggars can't be choosers, no sense whining about the basketball situation. almost half the season's games are non conference. play a tough non conference schedule and WIN, the most important thing, then you will get national recognition. its not like the reconstituted MWC has any powerhouse teams in it anyway.
its going to be tougher for coach Gib to elevate UH in the BW, but he's going in the right direction. since we lose to Big West teams now anyway, its going to take one step at a time.
December 11th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
First of all UH has a win over a big west team Cal State Fullerton this season already.
December 11th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
I like the Big West move for basketball. It'll be easier to get the automatic bid. It's not like football where there isn't a playoff. Once you're in the big dance, what difference does it make if you're in the WAC or Big West? I think Hawaii will go the big dance much more often in the Big West opposed to the WAC. Plus, in basketball, it's easy to load up with a tough non-conference schedule if that's what you want. Plus, let's not forget the travel savings which will benefit all sports.
December 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
"If your recruits want to be on television, want their games to be discussed on ESPN, and want to play in big time arenas before big-time crowds, its not the Big West"
I don't see this happening in the new wac either, I don't consider Utah State and new mexico State Big time at all. How many wac games were on ESPN all year? 1- 2??? It wasn't that many.
December 11th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Again, don't agree with your opinion. Dave Shoji, despite playing is a weak WAC, continued to field a fairly competitive team with the "big guns", as evidenced by their play in NCAA tournament play. Men's basketball too can emulate this by playing good teams in preseason instead of "stiffS" they now play. The MWC only wants Hawaii football and it would be very difficult for Hawaii to join a "good" conference only for men'[s basketball. The success of the basketball team can also be measured in terms of financial success, not only in rankings.
December 12th, 2010 at 12:18 am
In the WAC's current form, statistically I agree with your point of view. More broadly, by 2012 I think the Big West offers a great opportunity for men's basketball compared to the WAC. At the top of the conference, it has a history of turning out fantastic teams. In the 90s UNLV, New Mexico State, and UCSB all were consistent tournament players with UNLV winning a national championship. Santa Barbara made it to the sweet sixteen with Brian Shaw, and NMSU also consistently made it. Over the past decade Long Beach State, UOP, Utah State, and Santa Barbara all made solid tournament appearances and had respectable showings. When Utah State was in the Big West, they were at the top of the league, but didn't win it consistently, yet in the WAC they've been consistently one of the top two teams.
With the upheaval in the WAC, the only program of interest in basketball will be Utah State. The conference RPI will be in the toilet. While I agree that the bottom of the Big West is currently very weak, and really drags it down, UH has lost twice to UCSB, twice to Cal Poly and (I believe) split with Fullerton over the past few years. The team will be plenty challenged, and with UCSB on a major upswing with a solid young team, and UH joining with what will be a solid junior class, this could be just the catalyst the league needs to improve. UOP, Long Beach, and Fullerton have all had moments in recent years. If they can get on track, you could have a nice core of quality teams.
So while I would have liked all sports in The Mountain West, it wasn't in the cards. I think this could be very interesting to watch and a lot better than you might initially think.
December 12th, 2010 at 1:08 am
good argument for sure.
so what's your point?
we can all stand around and complain of the big west all day long. it is still better than the "no wac" which in two years will disintergrate. utah state is next to join the mwc. what does that leave new mex st and the texas sisters?
we had no chance to join the mwc as a basketball program at this moment. but, the door is not closed. if we can develop or should i say resurrect our basketball program to where we flirt in the top 50 or higher. the mwc will knock on our door for basketball. they will then need us as was the case how they needed us for football.
your point is well taken...but, surfacing the problems and bad points does nothing to help the program. there was no other recourse. tell me your solution as to where the bball team could have landed???
answer that one.
December 12th, 2010 at 2:40 am
Al, you da man!
Jeff, your analysis is inconsistent. Big West if little sisters of the poor, but if we are 0-3, can you convince another league UH, way out in the Pacific, is more deserving of bigger and better?
I can find lots of faults with a guy's wife. Finding him a better one is, well, not so easy, as the guy has lots of faults too.
I get your point, but we can all nit-pick, which just feels negative. Al's point is well-taken. Where should UH realistically be if not in the Big West right now.
I'd like to think the Big West will improve the quality of its b-ball, in part because of the addition of UH. The conference is a work in progress. Let's give it a chance.
December 12th, 2010 at 6:10 am
I see no real difference between playing in the WAC and playing in the Big West. if we do well in our non-conference schedule (including the DHC) and get the job done in-conference, we'll get attention. aside from that, UH has just done very poorly over the last few years. I say spend a few years in the Big West rebuilding the program back to respectability and see what our options are then.
December 12th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Hey - If the Rainbow Warriors win under Gib Arnold, and I mean win, a top-100 rating will come no matter what conference UH is in.
Let's face it, the only "perfect" fit out there would be the PAC-10, and folks, that aint happening, probably never.
It was a "no-brainer" for the University of Hawaii to make the switches. Seriously, the way the WAC was shaping up, I'd be surprised if it was still around come 2012.
Absolutely NO WAY could UH charges it's current prices for tickets and/or pay-per-view to play such mediocre programs!
December 12th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Good points...however, going to the Big West is our best course of action (COA). This COA will hit both 10 meter and 50 meter targets. Perhaps if we consistently do well in the Big West, we can shoot for a higher market conference. Until then, this is the best COA. So drink up...drink that "Kool-Aid." From where I'm sitting, it's the best juice since "Troy Bowe" was the point guard in UH.
Respectfully,
"Get Real"
December 12th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
I got to agree with AL, we're in the MWC for football as of 2012 but who knows what's in store for UH Basketball in the future, Gib may build a dynasty here and having the MWC invite them into the conference too.
December 12th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
Come on, Jeff. You want UH to be top 100 but you realize the MWC doesn't want any Hawai sport other than football. You then whine about the BW. So where do you suggest the powers that be put the UH men's basketball team? WCC? (No interest) Pac 10? (no interest) Maybe the ACC so they can play your beloved Dukies. You are a big boy, Jeff, and need to face reality. This is the best UH can do at this time. Make the best of it and move on. An average house in a rich neighborhood sounds great but first your neighbors gotta allow you to move in.
December 13th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
I know we have to pay them in order to join the Big West and the MWC.
But why does Hawaii want to get screwed by travel subsidies that are way out of line ?
For example, the morning radio show pointed out that $150,000 to $
175,000 for football air fare is way out of line for about 100 in a travel party.
December 14th, 2010 at 1:23 am
I think you have made a very good point. He is trying to make it seem like he cares about the economy and this country more than he cares about being president. I doubt that.
December 14th, 2010 at 8:28 am
Jeff, the problem with your analogy is that UH hasn't yet shown it can afford an average house in the Big West neighborhood, much less the most expensive one. I'm hopeful that Gib will turn the program around, and encouraged by what I've seen so far, but UH is a long way from contending for Big West titles. Until it does that, with some regularity, we're deluding ourselves to complain that the Big West is too poor a neighborhood for UH.
December 25th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Good points...however, going to the Big West is our best course of action (COA). This COA will hit both 10 meter and 50 meter targets. Perhaps if we consistently do well in the Big West, we can shoot for a higher market conference. Until then, this is the best COA. So drink up...drink that "Kool-Aid." From where I'm sitting, it's the best juice since "Troy Bowe" was the point guard in UH. Respectfully, "Get Real"